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Author Topic: Anti - Competition Thread  (Read 11727 times)
Mark Toorock
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« Reply #240 on: May 26, 2007, 04:31:08 AM »

Ace, I'm quoting you because obviously I have misunderstood or misinterpreted, or maybe even linked thoughts of yours incorrectly:

You said this:

Quote
I also believe that with sponsorship and competition and training specifically for these things will result in further fracturing of our communities. Rather than a vast majority of people who enjoy parkour with the random friends and sense of community gained from it, that will slip away, replaced with sentiments of competition and people feeling the need to prove themselves before they can hang. Locals only or king of the hill type of thing.
and then this:

Quote
The crumbling of the communities would also obviously contribute to a drop in the quality of overall attitude and jams/training sessions.

So, I guess what I felt was a really far-fetched statement is "The Crumbling of the communities" .. to draw a comparison, I have not said that "Parkour based competitions would unite the world" ... two extremes where neither outcome is particularly likely, although the effects could push the balance off center either way. To me it sounds like you are building a case that jams would go away because they wouldn't be fun, open, or inviting any more, or at least jams as we know them would go away. You say that people being introduced to Parkour "won't know what it was like back in the day when their were friendly meetups) or something like that, I don't think that HAS to be true at all.

I'm going to give examples (real world) to counter your fears, but first I have to say this, and it is a repeat - The way Parkour goes is up to ALL of us, as individuals and collectively, it is not up to a televised event, or just the people who compete in that event, and we cannot leave it up to the people whose first exposure is a televised event, just as we can't leave it up to those people whose first example is a youtube video. The sense of community is driven by PEOPLE, not by intangibles such as the fact that a competition exists or by the fact that someone somewhere is making money from an event. I'll ask again for any real-world example where the sense of community has gone away from something and the blame didn't lie with the current practitioners. If WE stop acting like a community then communities crumble. If anyone shows up at a jam with a bad attitude now, how do you handle it? How does that change? We set the tone, both at competitions andat jams, don't put the blame on some external inanimate thing "competition"or "commercialism" ... when you alow these things to have their own voice, that's when WE all lose to them. When WE control the tone, when WE set the attitude, that's how we keep it (make it) the way we want it.


 

As for things that were "community based" - (although I disagree that "the community" is the important part of parkour, just as mentioned before, the benefit is to the individual, and Parkour is in fact an individual pursuit. I feel that the community aspect can help motivate and help others learn, but I see no evidence that those aspects would go away - and you can't provide any example to confirm that your fears are based on anything other than your fears!)


Surfing -now has competitions, people still surf recreationally and still meet up every morning to do it

Snowboarding - same thing, people were snowboarding and the community was pretty tight, with an "adversary" of skiers the boarders were sort of "banded together" to get rights to snowboard.

Martial Arts - again, the community aspect has grown because of competition, people now meet from all over the world in several leagues, and essentially have "sparring matches" and partners that they never would have before. Sparring did not become competitive because somebody put it on TV.

Bowling - yes, televised competitions, how the bowling world has crumbled (sorry, couldn't resist)

the list goes on and on and on - what activities don't have televised competitions?

Dog shows! – Yes.

Horse Shows! Yes.

do the dog and pony people hate each other now?

Obstacle coursing - Ninja Warrior! What Traceur wouldn't love to take a shot at that course???



I am asking sincerely, and I am listening earnestly for someone who can give a real-world example of the things that people against competition's fears are based on. If I can see an example that actually happend, then I can help to stop these things from happening in the competition that I am helping to create.
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« Reply #241 on: May 26, 2007, 07:46:56 AM »



Bowling - yes, televised competitions, how the bowling world has crumbled (sorry, couldn't resist)


..... bowling will rise once again!!! IT WILL DOMINATE  Grin !
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« Reply #242 on: May 26, 2007, 07:41:54 PM »

I am asking sincerely, and I am listening earnestly for someone who can give a real-world example of the things that people against competition's fears are based on.

I don't know if any of them share my particular fears, but here's something very similar happening now:

http://wholewheatradio.org/wiki/index.php/Royalties

Quote
"SoundExchange will pay royalties regardless of whether artists and labels have become actual "members." When we have good payee information - a name and an address -- we can pay out the royalty, even if these artists haven't formally become members. To date, we've processed over 200 million performances that can be attributed to approximately 40,000 different artist accounts. Since we don't have good payee info on most artists, however, we can't pay them.

"So you can see why it's really important for performers and labels to register with SoundExchange as soon as possible and claim their royalties. Artists, however, should not only register with SoundExchange but be actual members so they can reap the benefits of membership, one major benefit being the foreign performance royalties that can only be distributed through SoundExchange if the artist has designated SoundExchange (through its membership agreement) to do so on his or her behalf."

Name and address at a minimum. If you don't give those out, SoundExchange will still collect royalties on your behalf, and keep them - or, if your music is to be given exposure anywhere else, you have to give (possibly more) information to the ones doing this, probably including a signature. In the meantime (if you don't give 3rd parties the measure of proof that SoundExchange demands), SoundExchange will legally prevent 3rd parties from giving your work more exposure - even if you wanted the publicity. Sounds a lot like "violation of privacy" and "do it with us directly or do it with us through a 3rd party" to me, and all for the sake of more money.

Also worth noting is that "The Law is for All" section:

Quote
SoundExchange (possibly others) has created a business opportunity whereby by artists, artists agents, or artists record labels (ceeding rights to agent or label) transfer the right and ability of royalty collection to said legal entity (SoundExchange). Under a number of circumstance (for WWR specifically webcasting their songs) creats a situation where the user of the songs has to pay a royalty based on a court approved order to said entity.

Any artist that "signs away their rights" cannot also enter into an agreement with another party giving them permission to air their songs royalty free. If done so the artists is in breach of contract and legally liable to the entity playing their songs for all damages

Hmm, so - change that second part to "do it with us or don't do it at all" Angry
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