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Pilou Bazin
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« on: November 05, 2009, 11:47:25 AM » |
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I have been getting seriously obsessed with Georges Hébert's 1910s-1940s books on physical education, after spending my summer translating some of it  I wanted to start a forum thread on the topic; there's some information (read: lots) on the Hawaii sub-forum, but I couldn't find anything around here, so I'll start one. The idea is to chat about Hébert's views / techniques / exercises in a relaxed setting.. First thing I wanted to share, I really like his arms and legs 'elementary exercises'. Although they look a bit silly and lame, they definitely increased my strength, flexibility and balance, and made my joints more resistant. Plus, they're easy to add to any warm-up or to do on a rest day.. I highly recommend them. Second thing, unfortunately not from the book I translated, his quadrupedal movements book had lots of really cool ideas. My favorite QM torture now is the 'inchworm' where you start legs straight, hands on the ground as close to the feet as possible, and then walk your hands out as far as you can, then walk your feet in as far as you can (legs straight, back straight all the time). Great fun!
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Phil Howe
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« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2009, 12:29:26 PM » |
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The dreaded Inchworm! He has a separate book for QM? I won't ask for another massive translation effort, but are there any new additions to the repertoire of movement besides the inchworm?
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Gregg
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« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2009, 01:06:28 PM » |
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Hey Pilou... If you'd like, we can move this discussion to the Hawaii "Going Natural" sub-forum. It's going to end up there anyway. If there's good discussion, I will copy it there.  For joint flex and warm-up, I've been doing Frank Forencich's "Antidote" or Pavel Tsatsouline's "SuperJoints". Not always, not consistently. I like doing Hebert's leg exercises standing on this one fallen tree by the ocean. The wind adds an extra challenge, and I find it's a great way to catch a breather between sprints. Hawaii State Library doesn't have "Quadrupedie". Since you're the only person I know who's read it and is willing to talk about it, can you give me a quick overview? Looks like we both missed the XII Congresso Nazionale SIEF, on Hebert and "ginnastica naturale" two years ago in Italy.
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Pilou Bazin
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« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2009, 07:02:09 AM » |
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Gregg, that kinda was my point: all the natural method stuff is on the Hawaii forum, and so most of the rest of us don't realize it's there... It would be cool to have maybe a post here with links to the main and most interesting natural method posts from your corner of the maze? Pleeez? I'll look up my notes (yes I took notes) on QMs and try to give you a good rendition of my experience  By the way, I got that book through inter-library loan, maybe your library can do that too (I know many of the university libraries have those services in place, usually for free)!! Phil, didn't you notice a lot more QM type exercises creeping into the Primal warm-ups? No worries, I'll keep adding more 
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« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 07:04:19 AM by Pilou Bazin »
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ZacharyCohn
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« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2009, 07:28:28 AM » |
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I started doing the inchworm QMs a few months ago when I was with Jesse D in NYC. He got them from a german guy. Really fun! Try going backwards, and then side to side.
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Pilou Bazin
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« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2009, 07:38:39 AM » |
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Surprisingly, I found them easier to do backward ;P How do you do side to side ? do you bring in your hands and feet all together when you go in, then spread out in star shape when going out? or do you stay with hands and feet far apart the whole time? (hah! now I have to try out that version; it's more like octopus QM than inchworm but it should be interesting  )
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Gregg
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« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2009, 02:12:25 PM » |
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Here's the door to the maze: If you haven't been in HawaiiPk's "GOING NATURAL" area before, it contains: Hebert's "Practical Guide to Physical Education" - using Pilou's translation for parts, but then a more literal translation for the theory, etc. Hebert's "Physical Education or Complete Training by the Natural Method" - a chatty book. Very abridged translation. Some stuff on barefoot running Stuff from MovNat, Frank Forencich's ExuberantAnimal.com, and Mark Sisson's MarksDailyApple.com Old Hebertiste [Erwan Le Corre] posts from parkour.net while he was trying to develop a MN site [pre-MovNat] and other random stuff. Whatever I find interesting. Please add anything you find that's relevant.
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Pilou Bazin
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« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2009, 05:42:26 AM » |
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Ah! I finally found my notes and some free time, so here's my take on Georges Hébert's Quadrupédie.
First, QM encompasses anything that has to do with using all four limbs together. Think QM walk, yes, but also plank, push-ups, crouching, falling on your hands, crawling, handstands, rolling, etc, etc. Lots of different sub-topics, and as always Hébert goes through every different skill and lays down every possible way to do it. Example: the basic push-up can be done forward (the usual way), backward (facing up, kind of like arm dips), or sideways (starting on side plankand lowering yourself, bringing the extra hand down as a support at the end of the way). Very systematic variations, some probably better than others, but always trying to do everything in all the possible ways.
Second, he insists through the book that circus clowns are probably the most accomplished type of athletes, as tumbling in apparent randomness requires acrobatic strength, agility, and adaptability. He sees hand springs (jumping from your feet to your hands and then to your feet again while progressing forward or backward) as the dividing line between simple QM and acrobatic QM, which he regards as the highest discipline of physical athletism.
Then there's billions of exercises and progressions on the theme; I'll list here in random order the ones I noted. As a warning, a lot of the stuff here can be very advanced, be very careful when you try them and follow a slow progression.
- static positions (planks, crouching, standing): how to go from one to the other, moving the hands or the feet, facing forward, backward or sideways.
- QM walking and running: forward, backward and sideways. Changing pace from slow to fast to slow, switching styles, making long paces, turning around, adding sudden stops in plank. Note there is a slightly different variant of our QMs: keeping the hips higher, back leg almost straight. This is supposed to be easier for long walks.
- QM jumps: start with a progression from crouching and back, then add a jump to it. Jump in all directions, adding spins,etc. Pretty hard...
- crawling: there's an entire piece on crawling or snaking, using your hands and feet or just your core and back muscles (yes, like a snake)
- falling: again, progress slowly. Start bending down to get into a plank, then slowly increase the distance. Going backward or sideways, it is recommended to spin in order to land on both hands facing forward. There is only so much strength we can build on our arms.
- "piqué": anything where the feet leave the ground before the hands touch. "Piqué" cartwheel, handstand, etc
That's pretty much it. There's a lot of work to be done in these few exercises, though! I have barely scratched the surface for most of these, and it already changed a lot of my conditioning. Enjoy!
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Gregg
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« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2009, 10:55:42 AM » |
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Gregg, that kinda was my point: all the natural method stuff is on the Hawaii forum, and so most of the rest of us don't realize it's there...
Your notes on QM are now there, too... http://www.americanparkour.com/smf/index.php/topic,22512.0.htmlI'm starting threads on each of the 8-10-12 essential utility exercises... walking, running, jumping, etc. Slowly I plan to build up each area with new info that Hebert may not have had access to... or definitely stuff that wasn't in the 2nd version of "Practical Guide". If you [or anyone else] has stuff to contribute, feel free. I'm especially looking for ways to IMPROVE your abilities in the utilities. I think I'll start putting stuff about barefoot conditioning in WALKING.
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Pilou Bazin
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« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2009, 11:06:29 AM » |
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Sounds good.. an easy start might be to go over the book we translated and comment on it (there's a lot of great advice from Uncle Georges on walking and running, for instance, but it's usually crammed in two or three sentences). And there's a lot of modern stuff that can be seen as extensions / variations on the same theme, too.
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Gregg
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« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2009, 04:08:39 PM » |
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When people start asking questions, I'll comment. Until then, I'm searching for people who have been doing this stuff longer and more intensely than I have. Why should I share my ignorance, when I can use my time and effort to learn more? Oh wait - this is a forum, isn't it  Well, I share my ignorance plenty. PLENTY. --- --- --- Changing the topic, but actually staying on topic... AND sharing my ignorance: My current MN-inspired training IS NOT WORKING. I know this because I have been running the 12 tests every month since April. I made progress the first 4 months, and was happy about it. August went to junk, and I was sick. I did ok SEP, less good OCT, and even less good NOV. Why? 1: SEP is when I realized all the tests were supposed to be done in 1 day. [In other book, they were testing kids and spread it over a week.] 2: Got another job in SEP. 3: Diet changed - more pizza, sweets. 4: More time on APK forums. 5: More endurance, more PK, more days where I just had a "little is better than nothing" workout. 6: Fewer hard MN workouts, fewer absolute total rest days. So... MN probably isn't the problem... may even be the solution... We'll find out next month. Time to get off the forums, go out and play.
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naturalninja
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« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2009, 01:10:28 PM » |
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if we could make out a sample training seesion, maybe like: warm up then run 100m (fast) quad 30m (fast) jump maximum distnace X 5 climb up and down a 4m rope/ pole X 2 (fast) throw and catch something (a few kgs, i use a 2l water bottle filled with sand) X 15 (throw high) lift and carry something (very heavy) 10m swim 20m front crawl (fast) balnce on branch/bar 20m (move fast) fight someone run 500m quad 100m jump 3/4 maximm distnace X 20 climb up and down a 4m rope/ pole X 4 throw and catch something (not so high) X 40 lift and carry something (heavy) 20m swim 40m front crawl balnce on branch/bar 40m fight someone run 2km quad 400m jump small distance, small landing space, X35 climb up and down a 4m rope/ pole X 5 throw and catch something (not so high at all) X 70 lift and carry something (no very heavy) 50m swim 100m any stroke balnce on branch/bar 100m fight someone cool down   ? could someone post those tests the G.H had? sorry i dunno where to find them:(
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I still prefer MovNat:)
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