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Author Topic: Milk = strong bones = lie?  (Read 1043 times)
Chris Salvato
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« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2008, 01:31:06 AM »

take 2 multivitamins a day, eat hearty and stay active doing activities that stress your bones (running, jumping, lifting, pushing, pulling) and you will never have to worry about your bones...ever....

Then you can drink milk or not and thats pretty much up to you.

I drank a GALLON of whole milk every day for 4 months.  If i was going to have my bones turn to dust because of it then it would have happened.

Your body is good at regulating shit...lets not get too caught up in the details.  Balanced diet and vitamin supplementation and you have nothing to worry about.
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« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2008, 09:29:19 AM »

For taking 2 multis a day, what if your multi already has maxed out your daily intake? I know that the numbers they put on there are not the actual numbers required for your body. Would it be bad to take it again or is it not that much of an increase and your body will probably take care of it?
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Chris Salvato
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« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2008, 09:42:43 AM »

http://www.americanparkour.com/smf/index.php?topic=11629.msg137561#msg137561

100% is not 100% for YOU
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« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2008, 10:21:10 AM »

Do you have any sources to back up your claim?

Nutrition Concepts and Controversies, 11th Edition, by Frances Sizer and Eleanor Whitney

And also notes I took during Nutrition class.  Although its possible the teacher's notes were skewed from whatever source she was viewing.

/shrug
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Steve Low
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« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2008, 10:34:49 AM »

Can you quote what the book says on the subject.. since I assume you're the only one here that owns it.
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« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2008, 07:53:38 AM »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doens't sodium deter calcium absorption?
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« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2008, 09:22:52 PM »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doens't sodium deter calcium absorption?

Why would it?
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« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2008, 03:52:23 AM »

I was told (and don't accept with much truth) that too much sodium pulls calcium away from the bone, so in the end it would slow down bone growth
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« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2008, 12:01:29 PM »

Sorry for jumping in on a random topic but it caught my attention.

I think what is missing in this discussion is the concept of relevant amounts.
For example, someone can argue "something in milk (pH or whatever) doesn't let you absorb it well". That can very well be true and still be such a minor effect that it doesn't matter much in practice.
We don't really have 100% absorption for most things (often for good reasons), and even so what's so special about that? Say you absorbed 85% of the calcium in milk or cheese, does that mean it's not good for your bones? And are other sources of calcium from diet any better? I have to find the study but calcium from vegetables has a lower absorption rate than milk and in general it's harder to get it in the same amounts as easily (I think people tested this by using ratios of absorption vs isotopes with calcium from milk and from some calcium-rich vegetables for example). And even if somehow sodium or something else could in some cases pull calcium away from bones, that again might be something that (if it happens at all) only happens when you don't already have enough calcium available and the effect of consuming milk would still result in a positive increase of calcium available and used by bones.

So while the specifics about pH, pasteurization, etc might be interesting, you have to put them in perspective too in relation to how relevant they are to actual total net effects.

Some people can have intolerance for milk as someone mentioned in this thread and of course that is a very valid reason not to drink it for them. Personally I have no side effects from drinking milk or consuming any dairy products and find them to be an awesome part of my life. It's especially useful for me because I don't have many other sources of protein aside from eggs (I don't get to eat meat or fish unfortunately because I feel bad for them and prefer not to kill anything, as a personal choice).


So the answer to the OP question is milk is good for your bones, unless you are, say, lactose-intolerant etc in which case it's probably not worth it for you and you can still do fine with taking supplements or trying to get it from other sources. For some however milk is just a more convenient and delicious source (of calcium, proteins, and for me great no-fat taste) than the alternatives.
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« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2008, 02:17:50 PM »

After doing a little research, it turns out there's actually an almost-significant amount of sodium in bones as a whole. So, using critical thinking, I'd have to say that it makes no sense that sodium would go against bone growth.
But, in the world of health, it's not always as things seem.
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« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2008, 10:43:57 PM »

Just a quick thought after reading this.

I heard it mentioned that Milk is Basic, and that Calcium requires an Acidic environment to be absorbed.
Though milk isnt really basic, it seems to me that even if it was, your STOMACH ACID would aid in the absorption of the Calcium

That would make sense to me anyways.
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« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2008, 12:18:27 AM »

The final answer is that milk is a very good source of calcium and it's absorbed well by your body, it's been measured and compared to the absorption from many other sources in several studies.

People can come up with all sorts of theoretical reasons why it might not be absorbed, just like I could come up with all sorts of reason why you shouldn't be able to see something as far away as the sun ("stellar dusk could block our view!","light could get 'dimmer' in that huge distance", etc, all sounding semi-plausible) but obviously they are not sufficiently relevant factors because the simple fact is that you can see the sun just fine from earth, and you do get high amounts of calcium absorbed by drinking milk.
Some of the effects people mentioned might even happen, but if they each reduced your absorption by just say 2%, who cares... Roll Eyes
In fact even if calcium absorption from milk was only 50% and from vegetables it was 30% with most vegetables containing very little calcium and milk containing a lot, the conclusion would still be the same, drinking milk is a good way to get and absorb a lot of calcium in your body.

There are often ulterior motives for at least a few of the crazier arguments on either side of a question, too.
For example there are vegetarians that would like to convince others that any non-vegetarian diet is also unnatural and nutritionally bad even when it's not true, because they wish it was the case.  That's why it's important to actually consider the relevance of each argument or evidence and see if it really matters.
I don't eat meat/fish or wear leather (just because I don't like to hurt things if I can avoid it), which I guess technically makes me a vegetarian, but I would never claim that it's a nutritional advantage to give up meat (well aside from a small risk of prions hehe). In fact if you are trying to gain muscles you'll have a difficult time trying to compensate for all the good things that come with meat (for example the naturally occurring creatine which you can't get from just plants, etc). If you have a strong reason not to use milk (allergy etc) you can compensate in other ways, but it's not really easier or better for other reasons, and if you are not allergic and find it delicious and it makes you feel great, you definitely don't have any health reason to deprive yourself of such a great food.
It's really about being realistic and not going overboard believing something just because you would like it to be true.
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Ken PKChiro
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« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2008, 05:17:45 PM »

don't make assumptions tombb Smiley.  I don't make these statements because I want them to be true.  because there is evidence always on both sides of the coin, and I happen to be toward one of them.
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« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2008, 05:24:01 PM »

Throwing my own experience in there, it's not just about the calcium intact of milk.  All those other nutrients included in the process of taking in calcium need to be of proper amounts as well.  I used to have osteoporosis (yes, the old people disease..) even though I drank about 1/2 to 3/4 gallons of milk a day.  The reason?  Vitamin D deficiency.  I have no idea about milk itself being beneficial or not to the bones, but just getting a lot of calcium by itself is not necessarily enough.
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« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2008, 06:16:25 PM »

I wasn't referring to anybody specifically on the forum, that's why I used the wording "some of the crazier theories on either side", and I would imagine you would not put yourself in that category Smiley

But the main point is that there are many questions that are completely answered, so there is no need for people to have different opinions or feel like evidence just makes them 'lean' one way or another.
You can just measure absorption over and over as people have done and just look at the numbers to see the high absorption of calcium from milk.
If you had any actual evidence showing low absorption of calcium that would be surprising so you would want to post it, it's always good to review and discuss things directly (especially from actual numbers and measurements) instead of just talking about them hypothetically.

Also, as Cent mentioned, there are other factors, like Vitamin D, other minerals etc, but that's another place where whole foods like milk (or a well-engineered chemical replacement like baby formula) is great.
It's food that evolved for the specific purpose of making infants of various species grow significantly (bones and all) even as their only food source. It has all those nutrients like vitamin D and calcium in good proportion.
I like skim milk the most, and Vitamin D is liposoluble, so it's normally removed from skim milk, but that's why you have Vitamin D skim milk or Vitamin pills, if you know what you are doing for food you can choose how to compensate and even make them better.
There might be other things some people might not like about milk (allergy, taste, cows), but calcium absorption and bone health really shouldn't be one of them.
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