dsingle
Patas
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any obstacle conqured
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« on: August 17, 2008, 10:47:08 PM » |
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http://parkourgenerations.com/articles.php?id_cat=1&idart=28i read this article and it made me think that maybe some of us are training wrong why ARE we doing squats and pistols to help our precisions when we can just do 50 precision jumps why ARE we doing pushups and pull ups to help with our climb ups when we can just do climb ups and work the exact muscles we need? we could be doing more parkour oriented workouts instead of just your basic workouts i think i might start a new approach to my training what are your opinions on this?
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AMARILLO PARKOUR {(AMAPK)}
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Patrick Yang
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« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2008, 11:03:38 PM » |
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Blane's ideas are always great. However, I think that this may be for the more advanced traceur. Especially for people like me who haven't been training even a full year yet, I feel the "SAC tree" should be eaten from often and liberally. This is because many of us lack the physical strength, endurance, and armor to properly execute the movements of parkour safely. Case in point: 50 precision jumps in a row may put quite a bit of strain on one's lower joints if he hasn't a strong base of armor and skill with which to dissipate that force properly. And doing pushups, pullups and dips will help incrementally build the strength needed to do a muscle up more than failing at a muscle up over and over, picking up bad form on the way.
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Être et durer.
Être fort pour être utile.
"You need a lot of love to jump. A lot of love." – Châu Belle Dinh
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Chris Salvato
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« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2008, 06:06:23 AM » |
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One thing that you will realize after years in training is that you need to do more than just your sport in order to be phenominal at your sport.
A good strength base is necessary to control your body in space. This is evident when a heavy lifter suddenly starts parkour and you can see them blaze trails on their speed with things like climbups.
As Mark Rippetoe says in his book Practical Programming, you will not be able to stress your body to new levels of acheivement without incorporating some sort of weight training to complement your sport.
When athletes stopped just doing their sport and involved more translatable movements such as squats, deadlifts and cleans into their programs you saw more powerful and horrifying boxers, the advent of the foul line slam dunk and 500 foot home runs.
Not to mention that Blane speaks about weighttraining causing overuse injuries, which is bullocks, especially when compared to parkour training where the overuse injuries come much faster and with much less forgiving consequences.
I have much respect for Blane but his assertions in this essay are based on his experience on himself.
Blaine also does not say what kind of weight training he was doing. Was it heavy powerlifiting? Weightlifting? Cybex machines? Was he just doing squats with a 40# weight vest? Was his squat form proper?
He also says that the extra "bulk" he put on was useless. Was it fat? Was it truely muscle? Muscle mass not only helps by increasing force production OF the muscle but also favorably enhances the mechanics of the muscular lever arm systems throughout the body. World class sprinters are bulky. So are world class gymnasts. How can this "bulk" negatively effect your speed and control if these two sports that are so similar to parkour are both positively effected by increased muscle mass.
No one in parkour really trains properly. This is evident in how we get awestruck by things like a double backflip when something like a double back flip is commonplace in diving and gymnastics.
Traceurs also suffer from the most overuse injuries of any sport I have seen, though there are no statistics to back this up. According to Jesse Danger who has met and spoken with PKGen several times, every member (every member) suffers from some sort of high impact overuse injury. Keeping this in mind, there seems to be a major problem with the training methodologies of many people who are considered authorities in this sport.
With that said, you need to push your own boundaries and try your own methods. I am confident that in the end you will see yourself reach a plateau early in your parkour career and will likely try to find a way to advance faster -- which would involve weight training, bodyweight and gymnastics routines -- likely in a structured manner.
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« Last Edit: August 18, 2008, 06:16:18 AM by Chris Salvato »
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Steve Low
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« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2008, 09:03:55 PM » |
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I agree with Chris (more or less).
People with informal information for training (traceurs) are trying to "discredit" it. Obviously, skill training in any SPORT and parkour is paramount. But that doesn't preclude athletes from using workout regimens prescribed by strength and conditioning coaches to help improve their ability for their certain sport.
For example, sprinter using weightlifting and plyometrics to help them off the starting blocks and improve their explosive ability respectively. They just don't SPRINT like Blaine would be suggesting.
And "bulk" is not a problem. You don't want bulk? Don't eat for bulk. Also, work flexibility and bulk should be no problem regardless -- see gymnasts and oly weightlifters.
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Use the search function, please.
Any advice given is not to be taken as professional information either medical, training or nutritional.
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Eso
Guenons
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« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2008, 08:23:21 AM » |
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Also, if you read some of Blane's latest blogs on his training, 'Moderation' for example, you'll see he has started using a 'rotary' system that incorporates strength, endurance, and technical training in the routine. It's pretty interesting. http://blane-parkour.blogspot.com/ |
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Animus
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« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2008, 08:50:52 AM » |
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Blane wrote this after developing the physical armour needed to sustain this kind of training. I do agree that technical training and conditioning SHOULD be combined to some degree, but every athlete in the world does supplementary conditioning. Why? Because it is proven to work. Because it is proven to keep you safe. Sport-specific training is great, is key, but ONLY relying on that hurts you quickly.
As is stated, Blane dropped the idea of sport-specific training-only rather quickly.
So Blane does have a point.. you just have to take it for what it is, and do not let it become your bible.
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Steve Low
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« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2008, 10:59:31 AM » |
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If you wanted an outlook on what people generally do here's a basic template for routine construction (I think I included it in 'how to construct...'):
1. warmup
2. skill work
3. explosive/eccentrics/isometrics (that order)
4. strength
5. endurance/conditioning (includes tabata/HIIT/metcon)
6. flexibility
Pretty simple and depending on your goals in training you can incorporate what you need to whenever.
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Use the search function, please.
Any advice given is not to be taken as professional information either medical, training or nutritional.
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Animus
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« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2008, 11:04:29 AM » |
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If you wanted an outlook on what people generally do here's a basic template for routine construction (I think I included it in 'how to construct...'):
1. warmup
2. skill work
3. explosive/eccentrics/isometrics (that order)
4. strength
5. endurance/conditioning (includes tabata/HIIT/metcon)
6. flexibility
Pretty simple and depending on your goals in training you can incorporate what you need to whenever.
I think it's more effective, for Parkour at least, to condition before you introduce skills into the mix. |
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Chris Salvato
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« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2008, 12:00:22 PM » |
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If you wanted an outlook on what people generally do here's a basic template for routine construction (I think I included it in 'how to construct...'):
1. warmup
2. skill work
3. explosive/eccentrics/isometrics (that order)
4. strength
5. endurance/conditioning (includes tabata/HIIT/metcon)
6. flexibility
Pretty simple and depending on your goals in training you can incorporate what you need to whenever.
I think it's more effective, for Parkour at least, to condition before you introduce skills into the mix. He is talking about on a microscale -- workout to workout. In other words, you should always do a days skill work before a days strength training. |
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Animus
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« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2008, 12:45:54 PM » |
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I would question that, namely because that's certainly not how the French go about it. The idea is to be able to perform in any circumstance, including when you're so tired, exhausted, and sore that it's the absolute last thing that you want to do. In the words of David Belle, "If you cannot do a muscle-up when you are as sore as you can remember, then you cannot do one at all. The real world doesn't care."
I'm not suggesting to do this ALL the time, but I think it holds a lot more benefit from a technical position than conditioning afterward.
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Chris Salvato
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« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2008, 01:12:32 PM » |
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if you can't do a muscle up when you're fresh, then why on earth would you try when you are sore?
know your current level and your limits.
We are treading on gray lines here.
You need to build your strength base before you build your endurance base (which is what these "french" workouts are doing).
If you can't hop on one foot, how can you train that by attempting to hop on your foot for 1 hour? There are other issues to address before you can get to the level where that kind of training applies
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Animus
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« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2008, 01:26:15 PM » |
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I thought it was self-evident to not do things you aren't prepared for. Training a technique you don't know after conditioning is just silly. But I'm talking about after having a grasp of the techniques.
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